Through marriage counseling over the years - one subject that has stirred up a lot of discussion has been pornography. Especially how pornography has damaged marriages.
Below are some thoughts from Focus on the Family. I would be curious to hear from those who are caught in the web of pornography (anonymously is fine) and from those spouses who have mates caught in it and how it makes them feel.
The following talking points can equip you to engage others on this issue:
* Pornography has destroyed the lives of many individuals – including countless children.
* Pornography is addictive, and the addiction is progressive:
----- Once addicted, a person's need for pornography escalates, the person grows desensitized to obscene material, and this escalation and desensitization drives many addicts to act out their fantasies on others.
----- Experts believe that a porn addiction may be harder to break that a heroin addiction.
* Pornography destroys marriages and families. Excessive interest in online porn strongly contributes to divorce.
* Pornography seriously damages a child's mental and emotional development. Children cannot filter porn out of their worldview; thus, exposure to pornography at a young age creates an unhealthy view of human sexuality.
* Children who are exposed to pornography tend to exhibit sexually deviant attitudes and behavior, including sexual violence and crime.
* Violent porn reinforces aggressive behavior and negative attitudes toward women.
* Pornography plays a significant role in sexual violence. The most common interest among serial killers is hard-core porn.
* Given the overwhelming evidence of pornography's harm, parents should act to protect their children from pornographic material. Efforts might include:
----- Warning children about the dangers of pornography
----- Establishing online safety basics
----- Using computer filtering software
----- Defining clear media standards
----- Monitoring the amount and quality of all media children consume
----- Giving children a compelling biblical worldview regarding God's design for sexuality and relationships – focusing on the good, the true and the beautiful.
* Given the overwhelming evidence of pornography's harm, the state has a compelling interest in protecting society from these damaging effects.
* Lax enforcement of federal and state laws has essentially given obscene material the protection denied to it in the Constitution, and active prosecution must change this trend.
Copyright © 2008 Focus on the Family. All rights reserved. International copyright secured.
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When Quoting Scripture Inflicts Harm
6 years ago
16 comments:
Normally I don't post anonymous, but for this one I will.
All the points mentioned are right on point. My wife and I have had some very bad arguments about my view of pornography in my past and during our marriage as well.
She always had suspisions, but no proof of what i watched on the internet. Finally, When I realized that I had a REAL problem, I confessed to her and asked for her help and support during my journey to let go of pornography. She's been very very supportive, and I feel I've progressed well. Though at times "regular" tv will show images of women in skimpy clothes that catches my eye, I've been doing good fleeing from that also.
I've also saught an "accountability partner" to talk with when things get tough or when I just need to talk to someone other than my wife. It was also helpful to sit and talk with you and hear your thoughts as well Pastor Ray.
I know the effects of pornography will leave scars in my marriage for a long time, I feel that I'm taking steps toward the healing process, and getting closer to my wife and God.
She's kinda mad at me about other things right now, but its not porn. Now I have one less outside force trying to destroy me.
Thanks for this blog...
You Know Who
Just some feedback,views,and asked questions:
Feedback- This topic warrants merit.
Views- It seems as though this blog visits this topic frequently???
Questions- You are a Pastor and the info comes from a Faith -based affilation, do you see this concern more of an issue associated with church membership folks more than the general public? If so, any opinions as to why, that may be more of an issue? Just attempting to drill deeper here.
I've had discussions concerning this topic with "worldly" folks and with church folks alike, though sin is sin, (not debating it), but the views held as strongly or agressively as often times as are stated on this blog seems different than what is viewed from others across the spectrum.
Dear "You Know Who":
I read your message. Although I don't know who you are, I really appreciate your honesty and your desire for integrity. A marriage is very special. You married your wife because she wasn't like any other girl.... She'll stick by you, if you let her. Keep up the good work.
Amy :)
PS Have you watched "Fireproof" yet? That is a REAL couples movie--keep the tissues handy....
Hey Amy. Thanks for the words of encouragement. And the answer to your question is YES. We both watched Fireproof (Highly Recommended by Pastor Ray) and it was an awesome movie. Normally I'm not the sensitive type, but I welled up a few times in there. I need to get a copy on DVD one of these days.
Some more feedback-
This is NOT an attempt to refute the info stated by the original post, but to offer another perspective to this life problems along with many other poor behavior life problems.
If society and the "Church" is going to help with this life problem and reach out to the offender and the offended parties, then the need to remove the stigma associated with this issue (like many other life issues;overeating, overspending, drugs, alchol, gambling, etc.)must be viewed as needing treatment, care, and deeper understanding. The same as cancer, depression, etc. It seems as though whether it's in sermons or otherwise, there's commendnation versus acceptance of the sinner, but rightful hating of the sin.
To drill deeper into this problem area you need to look at cause and effect: Exs-
Overeating/lack of excersie = poor health
Over drinking = Intoxification/poor choices,longterm medical issues.
Overspending = Debt
Therefore Porn needs to be viewed in the same respect as those listed above.
Relationship/Marriage:
Lack of emotional/physical union=
One or both partners seeking personal gratification by external means outside of the union.
So with any poor choice behaviors, you need to look at what is the Core Root issue. What is the Void that is trying to be filled?
1st step is to be filled by Jesus.
Even after accepting Jesus, our fleshly,sinful natures still seek to statsify our physical desires:tastebuds,sexual,emotional,
chemical):
Food and liquor are legal (age restricted)
Gambling (lottery) legal
Prescribed drugs (Dr ordered)legal
Sexaul Desire (God created within context of a marriage union/to the degree mutually accepted agreed upon by each partner) legal
But often times in relationships/marriages Sex is then used as weapon, bargaiing tool, or a form of manipulation by one partner against the other. The Bibble instructs that within marriage partners, two become one-flesh and to give all (emotionally/physically) to one another freely. Do not Withhold from one another this sacred God-given gift or ABUSE it stated above.
Though Porn is one of many destructive poor behavior choices, truly looking at What caused one or more partners to seek out or indulge in that behavior, is the Core Root issue. Marriage requires EACH partner to self-exam themselves, as to why a problem has developed in the relationship. Remove the Spec from your own eye, then the Log in your partner's eyes won't seem so large.
Anonymous 7:54 pm - a few thoughts...
I agree with you about treating every sin as something that needs to be remove, not condemning anyone, but loving the sinner. Pornography is a sin like others, and the sinner can be redeemed.
You got the Scripture reference backwards I believe - it is remove the plank from your eye before the speck in your brother's eye...
Luke 6:41-42 - 41 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 42 How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
Also, you seem (my take on your writing) to be suggesting that there are mitigating circumstances for sin. You seem to suggest that a person may fall into sin because a partner withholds sexual behavior. Not sure I agree with your reasoning.
Dare we ever blame another for our sin.
Matthew 5:27-30 - 27 "You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
I do agree with you however that in marriage, our bodies are not our own, alone, but shared with our partner.
1 Corinthians 7:1-6 - 1 Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry. 2 But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
Just some thoughts...
In response to anonymous 7:54 pm
My marriage is one that is suffering as a result of my husband’s addiction to pornography. I agree with your “cause & effect” scenario. I am in agreement that if one engages in poor choice behaviors there will be negative consequences and with all behaviors, there are “core root issues.”
What I do disagree with, however, is the insinuation that one spouse is to blame for the other spouse seeking sexual gratification outside of the marriage. I also got the impression that in this case, it is the wife that withholds sex and uses it as a bargaining tool (cause)…which then opens the door for the husband to seek gratification elsewhere (effect). I understand that scenario is the case with some couples; however, it is not the case in ALL marriages.
In my experience, the addiction to pornography was present before we were married and despite the fact that initially I fulfilled my “wifely duties” whenever he wanted, he still watched pornographic materials. Not only did he seek whatever gratification porn provided, it also spilled over into out bedroom. There were many times I felt like some of the sexual acts he wanted me to engage in were a direct result of his years of watching porn.
I truly believe that many fail to see the depths of the damage pornography causes. In our case, I believe, that porn has completely jaded my husband’s view of sex and women in general. And I don’t think that he is the only one that has been affected by porn in this way.
As a result of the porn watching our intimacy, sexual and emotional, greatly diminished. The diminished emotional intimacy and the feelings of betrayal then caused me to not want to give myself to him, which then caused him to seek gratification thru porn. It then became this circular problem….his porn viewing and consequent self-gratification caused me to not want to be intimate with him, which then caused him to seek gratification in more porn and more self-gratification.
Pornography should be treated as any other addiction, and I dare to say that it is more destructive to a marriage than a drug addiction. I truly believe that the “core root” issue in our case is that my husband’s first lesson on sex was from porn. He grew up in a household with two older brothers and a father who all believed that watching porn was acceptable and they still believe that to this day.
How can we learn what God truly intended sex to be if everything we thought and learned about sex was contrary to God’s ways and Word?
Response to Ray McD and to 10:54pm-
I support both of your statements.
Now I'm sure my additional responses will be viewed as rationalizations. 10:54- Surley, what we are exposed to and what we are to be made comfortable around within our early years, plays a critical part once we become adults. I think to imply that only males are connected to this topic is (I'm sure stats support this at a higher level, for sure), but life experiences (personally and conversationally) there are females that view this product as well. With anything there are levels and extremes, and totally not-acceptable situations, etc. It also questions one's own comfort level of their sexuality. Again, totally agree sin is sin, lusting in heart is no different than intoxification. Is 25lbs overweight any less than 50, 75, or 100lbs overweight? Seems as though this topic gets extra attention though. (somewhat righfully so) Yes, we each have to answer to our own Sin. All Sins!
I also think more sermons, church-based material needs to be given to the preaching that Sex was created by God and that yes it should be practiced within the marriage union only(but again the world has been fallen for a long time) and the % of folks that have had sex prior to marriage is fairly high. The word sex (intimacy is the ideal form) should not be viewed as a negative word,after all NO species exist with out having been created by others having had sex.
Just from living in the real world (grant you the real word doesn't know sin from otherwise), but there does seem to be a major attitude in the views of sexuality.
All of this is just to give a differnt view, not agreeing or disagreeing with any others comments. Just having discussion. Only thru discussion, can one learn from each other.
Additional comments related to this topic as well as the over all thread of marriage-
These are based upon observations, conversations, and life-experiences. In order to have a more successful relationship it seems that partners need to have deep discussions regarding all topics in life(money, sex, careers, children, prior relationships, upbringing, morals, etc), perhaphs treating this as an interview for employment before agreeing that a particular mate is truly like-minded and agreeing to marriage. Life seems to suggest many folks, make a rush to judgement before deeply understanding all aspects of another, only to be disilussioned once the "love-bug honeymoon stage wears" off. Most of us wear masks, and aren't willing to let others see our warts, we all have them, regardless of makeup or concealers of some other means.
I'll transistion that into church life, again Masks, during Sunday services and during weekly events, most wear Masks, Sermons are often preached, and most agree "sure glad we don't sin like that/those type of sinners", That sin is real bad sin". All along wearing Masks. Certain sermons are started off by naming selected sin topics, condeming "those types of sinners", so selected members can say "yep, if they would just change their behavior", while wearing their masks, so their own sin doesn't get called out. Equal sermons need to be given to address all sins, by various members/gender parties.
When it comes to sexuality, it truly seems that "churched -folks" have the most challenge in speaking openly about it. Thus inturn creating more problems of it's own in this life area. Experience suggests that females prior to becoming "churched" particpated in sin (before marriage sex) w/ others or then pre-spouses, then only once they or their family became "churched", tend to feel this is not something to actively participate in, or as some term it "have to perform my wifely duties". The key- word, instead treating it as a form of intimacy with their spouse. Prior to being "churched", what was the word given to having sex? Most look back and probably recall it being mutual, or was it all again wearing Masks?
Now any behavior, sinful, or otherwise, that once that becomes an Idol, or used as a form of domianance/power over another is NOt appropriate and/or if it becomes illegal.
Recently a sermon was read, regarding filling a bottle with Godly pleasing things which in turn allows less filling of ungodly items physically, emitionaly, and other wise to be placed into the bottle.
So within our marriage/relationships it is vital that we breath into one another those things that are pleasing, uplifting, encouraging to one another so that there's fewer opportunities to have the relationship filled with things that are NOT of value to the overall union.
I'm not sure I agree that church people have trouble talking about sex. I believe we have shown a willingness to dialogue about some pretty sensitive subjects related to our sexual lives on this blog and in other ways/places.
I believe that what isn't talked about enough is the hurt, pain and damage that pornography does. It is too often simply seen as a personal thing but it impacts so many.
I have seen the hurt on the faces of so many women as they tell me their husbands are into porn. They feel smaller than a speck of sand. They feel violated. They feel they are nothing more than a whore (their word) to their husbands who want to do all sorts of things they have seen/read in magazines or on TV/computer. The amount of trust that is lost - and may never be gotten back.
Men can try to excuse this behavior by trying to say they are not getting affection at home. Maybe they should look for the real reason they are not getting affection at home. They should also realize that they are more than a sexual being. We are sexual beings but that is not the sum of who we are!
If I received no sexual affection from my spouse, that is no excuse for watching porn.
What if that was your daughter you were looking at? What if your daughters saw you watching porn?
Just some thoughts to consider.
Resonse to 8:32 am-
Not going to disagree with any of these comments. This sin and behavior in small or large (degrees/levels or etcs) amounts certainly is not the best choice, that's for sure. Yep, like most other poor choice acts, that like most folks partake in of any means, becomes a "crutch" or habit to make one-self temporiarly feel good yet causes themselves or others pain,misturst, or other poor self-esteem. Other than Spiritual healing, there's no "pill-in-the-bottle" quick fix.
It's always been and continues to be constant temptaions that are thrown at us. Each gender seems to be given specific temptations more so than the other. Certainly sex (in various means) seems to be tougher on males vs females.
I agree that getting to the core root issues underneath porn use and removing unnecessary shame is crucial to someone's recovery process and forgiveness.
A great minsitry in Philadelphia, Harvest USA, specializes in equipping churches to minister to the sexually broken. I recommend listing to a talk by their director about how we create a safe place in the church for all offenders and offended parties:
http://www.covenanteyes.com/blog/2008/09/25/podcast-equipping-pastors-to-minster-to-the-sexually-broken/
You might also want to check out the ministry of Covenant Eyes, their software products, and their free resources for churches:
http://www.covenanteyes.com/blog/2009/03/10/addressing-pornography-temptation-in-your-church/
I would have to say that I would disagree with Pastor Ray's statement:
I'm not sure I agree that church people have trouble talking about sex. I believe we have shown a willingness to dialogue about some pretty sensitive subjects related to our sexual lives on this blog and in other ways/place.
I know for a fact that if I had someone to talk to earlier in my marriage about sexual sin that my road would have been easier to travel for me and my wife. With me struggling with porn at a early age, it was hard to stop into marriage. Once I got married I thought that it wouldn't be a temptation anymore. But the moment I wasn't sexual satisfied for all the different "normal" reasons (cycle, low energy, late nights, missed opportunities) the temptation start to come back stronger and stronger each time. Now thank God that I did just put myself out there and speak to a mature christian male to seek help. But I had to just put myself out there and risk that I was the only one who had the problems I had.
Their are things now that I have to deal with that porn has influence my sexual desires that I don't know it right or wrong. I don't think I am the only one that has questions. I just don't see the avenue were open dialogue can happen. I mean yes writing here on a blog is OK but where can I/we ask questions that may not be OK to post on a blog. Is it OK for one to have a desire to do XYZ? Like what is right and wrong or what is OK and not OK to do with in marriage?
There is a lot of gray areas and with gray areas being left up in the air make me lean more to that there isn't as much dialogue as we may think. For there are a few questions I have that I don't think I have a place to ask without judgment and openness. Is there a place?
My wife and I watch Fireproof and it blessed us greatly. But the best think to happen to me was getting caught by my wife and having to dealt with the hurt and pain. There is more trust now for I have been able to open up to her more and revere our marriage more for i never will hurt my wife and marriage like that again. But I have these questions and desires that I don't know are OK or not.
I cannot speak for the church before I arrived - but - I am open to and have had conversations with folk about their sexual behavior without being judgmental. If Anonymous 2:25n pm wants to talk - I am able and willing.
I stand by my statement.
How can I help?
I will take you up on that Pastor Ray.
-Anonymous 2:25n pm
Sweet - I await your call!
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