A saying I created (I'm pretty sure I never read it anywhere and I Googled it and didn't find it goes like this...
Happiness is circumstantially driven, while Joy is spiritually derived.
What brings you happiness?
What brings you joy?
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When Quoting Scripture Inflicts Harm
6 years ago
13 comments:
Your saying implies a distinction between happiness and joy.
According to your saying, if happiness is driven by your circumstances, it is possible to attain happiness without a spiritual basis. Similarly, according to your saying, joy is spiritually derived, and therefore independent of your circumstances, dependent instead therefore upon another means where we are dependent recipients instead of active participants.
If joy is spiritually derived, then by implication, anyone without the means to derive joy spiritually is therefore incapable of experiencing joy.
Surely, when James wrote "Count it all joy, my brothers, when you face trials of many kinds..." he was alluding to the appropriate response in the here and now by the believer to trials he or she may face, and not to some sense of spiritual attainment.
My understanding of the James 1:14 is that joy is the appropriate response of a believer to circumstances, making the believer the active participant, instead of something to be passively derived. If passive attainment were the case, then a valid argument could be set for those who find their joy in the spiritual pursuit of eastern religions.
Anonymous 3:39 pm - let me try to explain.
Happiness is totally from circumstances, driven by them. Circumstances make us happy or sad.
Joy is from a relationship with Jesus, it is spiritually derived.
1 Thessalonians 5:16-18 - 16 Be joyful always; 17 pray continually; 18 give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus.
As Christians, we are called to be joyful (which comes from our relationship with Jesus) always, even when the circumstances (which drive happiness) are not in line with our wishes.
Not sure what James 1:14 has to do with this topic. Did you miss quote?
This joy is not passive but very active. It is deep rooted in Jesus and can enable us to overcome the circumstances we face.
Paul knew what this was all about.
Philippians 4:10-13 - 10 I rejoice greatly in the Lord that at last you have renewed your concern for me. Indeed, you have been concerned, but you had no opportunity to show it. 11 I am not saying this because I am in need, for I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances. 12 I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. 13 I can do everything through him who gives me strength.
Anonymous, this is not mysticism or eastern religions, this is a relationship with Jesus that can carry us through beatings, imprisonments, persecutions, and even deaths as the early Christians faced.
I hope this helps.
I disagree that happiness is totally from circumstances, happiness is the response a person has in response to circumstances, depending upon perspective. Case in point: the recent elections. Democrats were happy, Republicans were not. The same set of circumstances, different responses based upon the individuals response to those circumstances.
With reference to the James 1:14 verse, I forgot the all important hyphen, it should have been James 1:1-4.
So if I understand you correctly, it is not possible to experience joy unless you have a relationship with Jesus? Put it another way, only those persons with a relationship with Jesus will be able to experience joy. So therefore, the joy is a benefit of a relationship with Jesus.
I'm not sure I would agree that the verses you sited support this position. They speak rather of learning to be content and being joyful, in other words, CHOOSING an attitude response to circumstances.
If joy is spiritually derived, as the result of a relationship, then it is the passive result of the relationship. The Bible instructs us instead to operate in joy actively, to choose the option of joy when circumstances go bad, instead of relying on it as the result of a spiritual derivation.
Question for last poster. Do you have a deep abiding relationship with Jesus? Cause if you did or do, you would know what Pastor Ray is saying about the difference between happiness with is physical and joy which is spiritual.
Anonymous 11:46 - I'm not sure what you are asking. Or where you are coming from.
Yes, I believe that true Joy is only experienced through a personal relationship with Jesus. Yes, Christian have available to them something the rest of the world does not have! We're the only ones who can come into the presence of God.
John 14:6-7 - 6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."
Without Jesus, no one can come to God. No one can know God without Jesus. The other religions or philosophies of the world are not sound nor do they have a way to God. I wish they did cause there are many who will not turn to Jesus.
This may be where we differ on this issue. You may believe that Nirvana can be achieved through some other form of religion. But that is not heaven. The world hopes there are many ways to heaven, but there is only one.
Happiness is circumstantial. I may or may not be happy with the same circumstances you are happy. The same event may impact us differently.
But Joy, real Joy, is derived from a deep relationship with Jesus and you cannot experience what I mean unless you know Jesus.
I'm not so much trying to convince you as I am trying to explain what I mean. May you experience the Joy that is derived from only one source, Jesus!
Here is a secular article that shows how far off the world is in their thinking...
http://abcnews.go.com/International/Beliefs/story?id=1374010
Anonymous 12:41, whether I have a "deep, abiding relationship with Jesus" or not has nothing to do with what is being discussed. In fact, it concerns me if I have a "deep, abiding love for Jesus" that I'm somehow not supposed to question things.
With respect and if I may restate my original point, I simply attempted to point out that joy is a condition that we choose to live in when we face life's issues. If Joy came as a bonus to knowing Jesus, why would James have to encourage us to "Count it all joy when we face trials" etc as mentioned in James 1:1-4 (can't forget the hyphen!) James is reminding folks, "Look, when this stuff happens, it's because of who you have aligned yourself with, and so choose to respond to it with joy".
honestly, the other verses that have been brough up so far reinforce this position. CHOOSE to be content, CHOOSE to be thankful, CHOOSE to live in joy. It's a choice that we as believers make, to choose joy, and active decision, not a passive one.
I would offer this reply, in a simply rational statement to this question. Knowing the "Truth- Jesus", though I may not be all too often happy, let alone understand joy, but I can say I do have inner peace/contentment. To which I give credit to the Holy Spirit who works in me (in spite of my fleshly-self) having first accepted Jesus. I may well be a life-long work in progress, but knowing/accepting the "Truth", the Spirit continues to mold me even when I still rebel in the flesh.
Thank You Jesus, for loving me!
Does your heart leap for joy as did Elizabeth’s when she heard Mary’s voice? Mine does when I hear the Alleluia chorus at Christmas. So much that I cry tears of joy. My explanation of joy is an uncontrollable emotion that you feel from inside your heart. From the depths of your being. I experienced joy when I first saw my daughter. I experience joy when I am in church and feel a special anointing from the word.
My explanation of happiness is of a lesser feeling, one that you may get when your team won the game. When you leave work on Friday knowing you have a weekend ahead of you. Happiness I feel is not as emotional as joy. Thus if you are a Christian and have been filled by the Holy Spirit then you can experience great intense joy – every day if you allow the Holy Spirit to work in you.
Linda
I agree with Pastor. Joy is much more than one could even write about. Joy is that peace I feel because of my relationship with Jesus. My happiness comes and goes. When the Redskins win, I am happy (so I have not be very happy lately). But the circumstances around me do not alter my joy because that is based on my relationship with Jesus and that does not change. I think there is a scripture some where that says he never changes.
My Executive Pastor, whom I haven't gotten to blog yet (he IMs, surfs the internet & E-Mails - pretty good for a guy in his 60's)wrote me this morning with a question.
Joy to the World... is it happiness or joy to the world?
Shout joyfully to the Lord, all the earth; break forth in song, rejoice, and sing praises. Psalm 98:4
He came across a daily devotional he gets from David Jeremiah. Check it out at http://www.davidjeremiah.org/site/magazine.aspx?id=2328
I am one who believes that true joy is spiritually derived because of where faith lies.
The joy that we must have within trials (Like in James 1:1-4) can only come with knowing Christ because Christ said he has overcome the world. Joy is rooted in the reality of a Sovereign Creator God, a Savior's sacrifice and resurrection, and what that all means for mankind. "The same power that conquered the grave" lives in every Believer of Christ. So what are trials but just other ways to mature in Christ, gain perseverance, and "know Him in the power of his resurrection and share in His sufferings"?
Yes, w/o Christ there is a "hope" that the trial will end but w/ Christ it is not just a hope it is an assurance.
"What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger" is a good saying that mirrors james 1:1-4 but there is only faith in that statement. James 1:1-4 reminds us to not be so focused on the present, but persevere, and overcome like Christ did.
Joy without the Savior who has conquered it all is just hope. But hope in what? True joy is assurance of victory in this life and the next. So my trials "ain't no thang but a chicken wing" so to speak since I know that I am more than a conqueror through the blood of Jesus.
Joy is not in the absence of suffering but in the presence of God. An oldie but a good!
Joan Ado
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