I struggle with what I am hearing out of the media about some of the economic plans.
I do not see how bailing out businesses and/or persons who have made bad business decisions is helping the country. Is it fair to bail out some while those who have made wise decisions in business or as individuals are still required to pay their loans? If we're giving out money, where can I stand in-line to get my share of my tax money given back to me?
My home has decreased in value too. My retirement has been cut too. Will I be offered a cut in the give away to help make up for the economy's impact on me?
Can someone help me?
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When Quoting Scripture Inflicts Harm
6 years ago
12 comments:
Oh boy! This is a topic that gets my blood boiling. NO the GOVERNMENT should not be bailing irresponsible people out of their bad decisions. YES the people that gave loans they knew could not be paid off should be held accountable. I personally see all the bail out junk as political pay backs/pay offs for political favors in getting the new president elected. He promised NO EAR MARKS in the bail out. Last count I heard was 8500 ear marks were in the bail out, but he cut to "ONLY" 4500 of these so called "no ear marks". If they want to stimulate the economy give the bail out money to those who PAID THEIR TAXES so we could actually spend the money on new cars, pay off home loans etc. But I would be against that as well as I did not borrow money I could never pay back. You see here in the new America, there are no consequences for your actions, and you are to be rewarded for not working, or being honest and responsible. Oh yea, if you are God fearing, well you better watch out as they are going to find a way to stifle that next!
I also see all this as setting up a one political (Socialist) party down the road. You tell me how fair it is that an illegal immigrant gets FREE education and medical, and now the new bonehead regime in power wants to just let these illegals stay here with NO consequences for coming here illegally! Again, they will just collect on those favors on the next election while the rest of us WORKING tax payers pay for freeloaders. Heck... WHY bother to work when your Socialist government is going to REWARD you to not work.
The new president has already started using my tax dollars to pay for abortions in other countries. He is also in favor of same sex marriages AND partial birth abortions. How much more anti-God can you get here folks?
From JTG- Though paying more taxes is not ideal, and attempting to take sound individual financial practices at all times, as well as living w/in personal means, I feel as a society and a country we are then all subject to the same consequences. Do the floods/storms not effect both the good and the bad? We all share 1-country to which we live in, we do have the option to move out of this country, so therefore we must all deal with good/bad conditions that we endure, if we choose to live here. As we are were born into sin, we aare still paying for that which Adam/Eve broke, thank you Jesus for paying our sin-debt thru salvation. I don't like all of the ills of our country's situations, but there doesn't seem another way around it. Life has to end at some point, it seems as though that time is more rapidly approaching. As a society our attachment to finanical, and the continuing attachment to technology seems to be pushing ourselves closer and closer to the final brink. Sorry for the "chilly" forecast, but you can't hide from the realities of life.
I'm bothered by your opinion Pastor Ray. I think one of the points many of us fail to realize is that lots of these bail outs is because of people who have purchased a home and lost a job THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN, and are now stuck with a mortgage they can't pay. When a couple or an individual save their money, make a responsible budget, and pay down credit card debt (and other bills) to purchase a home, and then lose their job because of a failing economy brought on by George Bush, I don't think its fair to place blame on them. I feel that MikeFred and pastor Ray have no thought of people who have been laid off and are now forced to search for a job along with millions of others in the same boat who are now bordering on foreclosure.
So yes guys, I don't think EVERYBODY should be bailed out, but lets be honest.
The Economy sucks
It will get worse
Lots of people who need bailouts WERE responsible
And The President is trying to make things better in this country.
I'm just very dissapointed in the two of you.
Oh yeah and BTW Mike. Obama is NOT in favor of same sex marriages. Please recheck your facts sir.
Anonymous 6:42 - I would imagine that some of those who will be helped by the bailout are as you describe. I would be for loans that would be paid back for people as you describe - who made good decisions, tried to do it right, but lost their job and need help making ends meet until the economy improves or they find jobs. We help people like that all the time through our Community Concerns fund.
But what I read in the news is that some of the bailout money given to companies ended up in the pockets of CEO's. Trying to help a company survive so we don't lose jobs is a good thing - filling the pockets of the elite is not. I know the President hopes to put a stop to this - I wish they had thought of this before giving out our tax money.
I have also read that some folks made unwise decisions - like interest only loans or balloon payment loans that had to be refinanced after the market changed. Now they can't refinance for the value of their loan because the home doesn't value the same.
Some people may have been victims of salespersons and agents that hoodwinked them. But should our tax dollars bail out bad decisions? If so, I have made some I would love to be bailed out from myself!
I am not against the President and am not trying to judge his plan. I'm asking for someone to help me understand it compared to what I am reading.
I have never been against helping those who are trying to help themselves. I am against giving money to those who are simply looking for a handout or someone to bail them out of their bad decisions.
By the way - the saying that some do not believe in through my poll - "If a man will not work, he shall not eat" is from the Bible - a rule given to the early church - 2 Thessalonians 3:10
I won't hide behind an anonymous tag to express my opinion. I'm sorry you are disappointed in me. Maybe you don't understand my position.
From JTG- RE -" "If a man will not work, he shall not eat" is from the Bible - a rule given to the early church - 2 Thessalonians 3:10". I realize this is in context to this topic's questions, but this is where using a scripture(for me) I feel is too broadbased, how about those born with mental and/or physical disabilities, who can not "work/earn a living", and/ or those who are born w/ a mental disabliity(as I have a personal relationship to someone)(who is actually working 2-jobs ) for which they or any anyone with such limitations and simply living in this Metro area (with its outrageous cost of living exps)can barely survive. Let's also quote scripture that speaks about helping those "widowed,children, etc, etc.". I would like to refer everyone to this past Sunday's Washinghton Post columnist Courtney Milroy(?), which speaks directly to this tpoic. I think this is where WE need to be thankful to GOD that we individually MAY not be in the position of those who need assistance, versus feeling as though WE are not getting our "piece of the PIE", I leave those decisions up to GOD. My home has lost considerable value, as well as feeling my home in this Metro area may never even sell at all in the next 15yrs,(scary) and my 401K has not grown (I did greatly adjust into ultra conserative investment options upon the IRAQ war knowing then, the effect it would have on future returns.) But I'm grateful, I was able to buy a home (some 11 yrs ago) at athen reasonable price, (my home should've never increased to the outrageous overvalue it had the past few yrs ago) so I look at it as it was all make believe paper money any way. I feel extremely sad for the folks under age-35, who may NEVER be able to have enough resources for a down payment or to afford the still overpriced housing market in the Metro area. I blame the housing industry for not building affordable small size homes, pushing folks into mortgages that neither they nor the lenders could support, ALL in the name of greed and for forcing us all into this "bigger is better, new gadget, new gadget, gotta have now, now" way of society we have fell victim to. When things have become this far of center there is usually a major resructing that needs to take place, it appears we are in this period of time, which on many levels does not have an immediate turn around to it. We have gotten too "soft", to used to our various gadgets, and if you don't have access to "www. something!", then you are almost can't get help for anything. You can never actually speak to a human to resolve a problem. I think technology and greed have damanged our society greatly! It has made the wealthy, wealthier, and has made the poor, poorer (bsc they still need the same, technology to survive in this US society, yet leaving the them with less money for everyday living expenses. Do grade school children really need cell phones, and everyone in the family need cell phones? Some how most of us ALL Survived just fine before they were ever developed, but the overall Tech industry has driven it down most of our throats, ALL in the NAME of GREED!
JTG - I totally agree with your comments about those who cannot work - a broadbrush doesn't cover everyone for sure - I believe the Scripture was directed at those who could work and wouldn't. Folks that expect others to provide for them when they could for themselves or at least help.
I am not refering to those who have physical or mental conditions.
I refer to thos who rack up several credit cards to the max, live well beyond their means and then expect big brother to come to their rescue.
Here we go, another text from the Bible taken out of context:
"In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching you received from us. For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone's food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to make ourselves a model for you to follow. For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: 'If a man will not work, he shall not eat.' We hear that some among you are idle. They are not busy; they are busybodies. Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the bread they eat. And as for you, brothers, never tire of doing what is right. If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of him. Do not associate with him, in order that he may feel ashamed. Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother." (2 Thessalonians 3:6-15)
The line "If a man will not work, he shall not eat." was given by Paul as a response to those individuals in the Thessolonian community who saw living in Christian Community as a free ride, who were living in the midst of a community that was working for an honest living, and yet were nothing more than religious moochers, preying on people's charity while making them guilty at the same time.
"They are not busy; They are BUSYBODIES"
The admonition was aimed at THEM, not at society in general!!
Sad to see that once again, the lines are muddied between Republican party dogma and Jesus's manifesto.
Interestingly, there is instruction given on how we are to respond to our wider society, from Jesus, in Matthew 25:34-46:
Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father! Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world, because:
I was hungry, and you gave me something to eat.
I was thirsty, and you gave me something to drink.
I was a stranger, and you welcomed me.
I was naked, and you clothed me.
I was sick, and you took care of me.
I was in prison, and you visited me.’
Then the righteous will say to him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and give you something to eat, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you as a stranger and welcome you, or see you naked and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’
The king will answer them, ‘I tell you with certainty, since you did it for one of the least important of these brothers of mine, you did it for me.’
Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Get away from me, you who are accursed, into the eternal fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels! Here’s why: I was hungry, and you gave me nothing to eat. I was thirsty, and you gave me nothing to drink. I was a stranger, and you didn't welcome me. I was naked, and you didn't clothe me. I was sick and in prison, and you didn't visit me.’
Then they will reply, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or as a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and didn't help you?’
Then he will say to them, ‘I tell you with certainty, since you didn’t do it for one of the least important of these, you didn’t do it for me.’
These people will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.
When are we going to stop assessing people based upon our skewed political ideologies, and start seeing people through Jesus eyes? If I have two coats and my neighbor doesn't have a coat, am I supposed to wonder where he left his coat, what bad decisions did he make to lose the coat, or do I just give him a coat?!?
We live in undeniably the most affluent nation on earth. In a time that more than a third of the global population has no access to sanitary drinking water or facilities, when more people in the world live on a weekly wage that is a minute fraction of what the average American teenager gets for a weekly allowance, to be complaining about how this is going to hurt my bottom line is at best, trite.
Of course there are going to be those who will attribute this whole mess on the current administration, it suits their political persuasion. I don't however hear those same voices complaining about the massive expenses and future tax burdens placed on this country as a result of two mismanaged military operations.
Micheal
A few thoughts trying to make my viewpoint clear.
I am not in favor nor am I against the President's budget or his bailout plan. I am not President bashing nor am I trying to come at this issue from a certain political view. I have heard comments in the media for and against this plan. I am seeking some help in understanding the benefit of this plan.
I am an upset citizen that thinks our tax dollars shouldn't go to line the pockets of rich CEOs. Nor do I think that our tax dollars should go to support someone who made bad personal decisions such as living beyond their means. I've made plenty of mistakes and have had to face the consequences of each. Somewhere we have lost the art of personal accountability in our nation - do what you want and someone else will foot the bill. It is always someone's fault, not mine.
Foreclosure is a terrible thing and I'm sure there are folks who have tried their best and have worked hard and should be given loans to help them. Loans that will be paid back in time. Is that what is planned by the bailout or is it simply giving away tax dollars? Is the bailout simply giving away money, redistributing tax dollars, to folks that in some cases didn't even pay taxes themselves?
I'm not against helping the poor and feeding the hungry. We do it all the time from our church and my wife and I do too with out available funds. I'm for supporting children in need and making sure they have their needs met.
Help me understand how the bailout is a good thing for our society? That was my original request. Can someone help me? Help me understand?
From JTG Re- comment"I refer to thos who rack up several credit cards to the max, live well beyond their means and then expect big brother to come to their rescue."
I guess we could beat this horse forever, I agree w/ you on your response, as well as there's no "accountability". Again, for myself I go back to the 1980's and looking forward today, I think many folks have done an injustice to their children by giving them all/anything they wanted, so now that they have become adults or their children are adults, they have no concept of saving or waiting until they can afford something, just simply see it, get it and have no realization that purchased items have to actually be paid back timely or at some short period of time in the immediate future. I think the word NO, became such a terrible word. It became easier to give in and say YEs, yet the receipant then never learns a valuable life-lesson for the word- NO. In-turn isn't that what the Financial Industry has done, told everyone YES, (bsc they earned $$ for pushing thru bad loans for immediate greed gratification) and somehow didn't want to see in their supposedly MBA education that they couldn't support the bad loans/nor could the borrowers pay them back (lets just keep the cash-cow mooing, so I can buy more Mercedes, Jaqs, SUVs,etc. and go to Paradise Island NOW, forget the future mentality). MBA or not they probably were never told NO in their life growing up either.
For me in the past 5-9 yrs I have observed a complete disconect of society to "basic common respect/couretsy" in any type of customer service. Obviously these basic life-skills were never developed within a person's home or not handed down from their parents/peers, therefore it's not something in many folks DNA. I think schools and even colleges need to have courses in basic common respect. Again, I think as a society we hide behind it's email, texting, and other various non-personal face-to-face interaction, which has greatly contributed to this lack of respect in soceity that we all see. Do most of us, actually go into a bank? If we don't personally interact w/ each , we don't develop and/or see how our actions have an effect on one another. Now days children,teens, young adults spend large amounts of time on video-games and/or play w/ one another via on-line versus playing (even as I did just in the 1970s-1980s) actually outside face-to-face with one another. Most of us in the workforce today will send an email, instead of walking across the room to ask the same question face-to-face. But even business perfers you to email, so you have a record of it. Call me old before my time here, but I see our fixation to technology as the root of all evil the same as money is. Isn't there biblical refrences to being marked by the Beast? Isn't everything now already a PIN for this, that, & a password for this, that. Therefore isn't it conceivable for the Government to want to have us all "chipped" in order to further have more immediate access to our medical records, SSNs, etc? It's already necessary to have access to the Internet in order to basically correspond in most basic business transactions. Even when you make a tel call, the 1st thing is, go to "WWW...", before you even are forced to listen to the 15 doz tel options to choose from, then maybe after that for another 20mins, who may speak to a human person for help (if you don't get cut off before that). Still being on this side of age-50, to me it's a sad, sad, world we occupy.
Joan Ado
Why is there always offense taken? Are we incapable of having discussions without getting our feelings hurt? We need to stop assuming the other person is being harsh and judgmental and assume the best of each other!
Getting rid of sarcasm would really help!!!
I believe (even Madoff) all the CEO's have money socked away or put it in their wife's name so their families are secure - we do not have to worry about them. Those that have, still have.
There are many people who have worked hard all their lives, however, to whom bad things happen. A house fire, job layoff, illness, foreclosure, elderly parents without resources, finally looked at a job market they had aged out of, etc. etc. I know someone who had all those things happen one after another. It is not their fault that insurance companies joined the "greed" wagon and did not completely inform their clients, that companies who had been operating on the premise of making a buck while you can instead of doing honest business went broke, that they got sick, that their parents became older, that there just wasn't enough left to stretch a few more mortgage payments or that they have gotten older. Credit cards are often maxed to get through these times, depending on how long it lasts. Sometimes it lasts just long enough to never recover.
Even now, when there are great deals on foreclosed homes, who can buy them? Those who already have money, so they can flip them and make more.
The government, of course, cannot truly look at each individual case, but I wonder if we should judge them if we haven't.
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