A good point was made about the controversial topics getting most of the comments. Here is your chance to respond to such a statement (true as it may be).
What is love? I posted 1 Corinthians 13 - http://raymcd.blogspot.com/2009/01/love.html - and only got one comment. I also posted - http://raymcd.blogspot.com/2009/01/can-i-trust-bible.html - Can the Bible be Trusted with no comments. Is it just easier to complain than to share positive thoughts and ideas?
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When Quoting Scripture Inflicts Harm
6 years ago
14 comments:
The problem we face is how to show love for an individual without that being interpreted as blanket endorsement of the individual's lifestyle choices. In reality, it is a choice that you have to make. Am I going to see past the choices and decisions a person made to get them to the point they are at, and rather choose to find that in them which God finds lovely, or am I going to treat a person according to my sense of justice, in that they get what they deserved (according to my personal opinions).
Doctors and nurses treat injured people in exactly the same way, with no regard of the events that led to the injury, and no regard to whether the injured person is a victim or an oppressor. They see past the background, see past their prejudices, and focus their efforts on getting the person in need well again. They leave the determination of guilt or acquittal to the courts.
Why can't the church do the same? Christians aren't called to point fingers, to be the moral guardians, God has done a pretty good job thus far of governing. Rather than assume the role of some kind of inquisitorial squad, the Body of Christ would be a much brighter beacon to the world through showing hope, love, and compassion, regardless of a persons plight. It's God's job to convict a person of sin, and its' not our job to condemn a person for sin.
I really like the analogy of doctors treating the patient without regard to how they became the patient. That touches me. Thank you.
God's unconditional love doesn't condone the behavior - but we are not the behavior police. We are God's agents of love.
What if God withheld His love from us until we were sinless????
I am in the medical field and I like the analogy of treatment that was used. I will also add if a patient comes into the Operating Room raging drunk or having had even a drink of water before general anesthetic is administered, there could be dire consequences. If a person continues in harmful behaviors - such as smoking, there are often unbearable consequences. As a Physician, would it not be their duty to advise that patient to stop the action that causes the disease? The human body will hold itself accountable in some of these circumstances like drinking and smoking. Sclerosis, Cancer and many other things have been linked to negative habits. I am not saying all disease is result of our choice, just making a point here.
I also believe as a parent that we often learn lessons of life through the accountability systems established. I believe we should love like we love ourselves but we too have to establish accountability whether it be our spouse, our parents or our friends. I personally have a person I call my Armor Bearer. We have been friends many years and we have always kept one another accountable for our actions.
Wasn't David held accountable for his sin against Uriah? David, the apple of God's eye. There are numerous stories where God's love is just as well as unconditional.
If a public office is held by a person and technically "We The People" are who they serve, would that not make that person accountable to us for what decisions he or she makes in that position? Questioning is not a sign of love lacking. I love my children and I question their behavior on a daily basis. That is my job and as a citizen it is my job to question whatever president we have in office. My party or not. What might be seen as negativity is indeed creating a net of accountability for an office that holds circumstances for all of us. Accountability, questioning and love are not mutually exclusive.
Love- Too much time is spent writing "long-winded" essays and book knowledge. We make things harder than they have to be. I haven't heard that there is a Masters or Phd in Love. Love is to acknowledge that we are each created individually and differently in the image of God, if we strive to follow Jesus' ways and advance with the Spirit's motives, we should be Lovingly Respected. We are all on a life-long journey, hopefully seeking our same eternity with God. There no two exact paths to be taken, other than faith in Jesus Christ.
Now this is a better thread - how about some more joining in? How can we express love to those we disagree with and still represent the truth we believe?
For example - how can we show love to those caught up in the homosexual lifestyle without being judgmental? How can we express God's love for them? Are we able to open the arms of the church, and share our heart, and allow God to do the transforming or do we feel some need to do the transforming and in our time frame?
What sin or level of sin would we be able to love unconditionally? I know, the Jesus answer is all sin, any level, but where is your level? I mean, could you work side by side to build God's kingdom with a brother or sister who was caught in a sin that you find appalling? Would they have to have a certain level of confession, admittance, change before you would love them unconditionally?
Lets put it in real terms. Could we, like Jesus, eat with sinners, any sin, show love, share in love what we believe and allow God to work on the person while God is still working on us and our sin?
We work side by side in the church with sinners all the time, even if we work alone - lol. So why are certain sins barriers to walking and working in love?
Would a divorced person be beyond your limits? How about an alcoholic who hasn't given up the bottle yet? How about a heterosexual couple living together as if married, but not? How about a homosexual couple doing the same? How about an unrepentant gossip? What if the were addicted to pornography? What about a person that had anger issues? What about a person that sold themselves sexually?
Where is the limit? And aren't we blessed that God doesn't have such limits? Aren't we blessed that God loved us while we were yet sinners, lost and His enemies?
That doesn't mean, in love, we shouldn't point out sin to one another (be ready to have it pointed out in return like we have on this blog page). But it does remind us that God is the judge and if we spend so much time removing the weeds we might pluck some wheat along the way. We also might turn the weeds away from Jesus and the church and fail to have an opportunity to be used of God to transform weeds into wheat.
Not a sermon, just a thought - something to think about as you go on your way...
As soon as we draw a line in the sand that says "this much sin", then we move out from God's grace and we sit in judgment over one another. Who am I to assess what is an acceptable sin and what is an unacceptable one?
Sin is sin is sin. There is no scale, no levels of sin. The Bible makes no mention of "little white lies" but applies the same harsh judgment to liars as is applied to murderers.
The more we take our eyes off of the condition of each other's heart, and the more we attend to the condition of our own heart, the more God can affect a change. The only person I am permitted to assess a level of sin is me, no one else.
So, how do we put what we believe, that sin is sin and that we should not judge one another into practice? I mean if our sins are not "obvious" that's one thing, but if our sin is outward and blatant, isn't that something else?
Sins are sins in that they separate us from God and need forgiveness, but what about the impact on our children and others?
Christians talk of love for their fellow man. Not the love that one has for their child. Nor the love that one has for a spouse. I think that love for our fellow man is characterized well by the Doctor Anaolgy - a desire to do good to others. Also acts of kindness. Reaching out to our neighbors when they are in need.
And as Christians we are to turn the other cheek. We are to take the persecution by those that do not believe in Jesus.
But enough is enough. Why should we not stand up for ourselves? Why can't we proctect our children from being taught non christian ideals and morals in school? Why can't we march for the right for life! Why can't we show zeal for our beliefs?
I may be classified as a religious bigot for standing up for what the Bible teaches. It may not make people happy and it might not look like love but I feel good that I can and will stand up for Jesus!
"Why should we not stand up for ourselves?"
What exactly are we standing up for? Our rights? In the Kingdom of God we don't have any "rights", we have "grace" and "atonement".
"Why can't we protect our children from being taught non christian ideals and morals in school?"
As a parent of children in public school, I'm wondering what "ideals" and "morals" you are referring to. My children get an education at school, but they get their morality and their ideals from what is instilled in them at home.
"Why can't we march for the right for life! Why can't we show zeal for our beliefs?"
No one is saying you can't. However, in enjoying the obvious freedom of expression that allows you to march and to show zeal, you must also therefore respect that others may not share your passion or your zeal. It is not our job to collect sinners for Jesus, it's our job to live according to what He commands in full view of those around us, and in doing so trust that the witness of our lives will draw people to Christ.
"I may be classified as a religious bigot for standing up for what the Bible teaches."
There is nothing wrong with taking a stand, in fact we are encourage to always be prepared to give an account for the hope that is within you. However, we must respect that some people are not going to respond in the way that we may want.
"It may not make people happy and it might not look like love but I feel good that I can and will stand up for Jesus!"
If you do it because it makes you feel good, then you've missed the whole point of 1 Corinthians 13:
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.
I can be a gifted speaker, charismatic, I can have a heart to help people through discernment and counsel, I can even be neck deep in charity work with no regard for my personal well-being, but if I'm doing it because it makes me feel good, then I'm wasting my time, and dishonoring the Lord. Love (and not just the accepting kind of love that embraces only the things we find acceptable) must be the motivation for anything we do for Jesus, since it was love for us that motivated Him to die for us. This means we need to learn how to responsibly love people with AIDS, we need to learn how to responsibly love registered sex offenders, we need to learn how to responsibly love convicted felons, we need to learn how to responsibly love someone of a different sexual, ethnic or religious persuasion other than our own, because Jesus's sacrifice was just as much for them as it was for me.
Anon2:56
Don't you feel joy when the Holy Spirit is with you? Don't you feel good? Don't you feel an overwhelming feeling of love?
Joan Adomanis
Love--I think it has no lines. I think it has no limits. I think sometimes it is very hard and I think that's ok!
Anonymous 5:42, in answer to your questions, no I don't, nor should I. When the Spirit if the Lord was on David in the Old Testament, he responded as the circumstances warranted. He would dance when the occasion was joyous, but other times he would literally crack skulls and take names!
When we allow the Holy Spirit into our circumstances, we respond as He would direct. This means we can rejoice when others rejoice, we can weep when others weep, we can even be angry under the power of the Holy Spirit.
I recently read an account of a person who accompanied team that went undercover to child prostitution rings in Manila. They would pose as prospective clients, and once alone with the child, would gain their trust, find out from the child all they could about the building and the other children being held there, and then return at night with trucks and sometimes weapons to storm the place and get the kids out to safety. These guys have a completely different view of the Holy Spirit being on them, they see their anger at child exploitation as coming from the Holy Spirit, and their image of Jesus is not one of gentle Jesus, meek and mild, but rather of a Jesus in army boots, leading the charge and kicking the doors down.
When we rely upon our feelings to determine if the Holy Spirit is on us or not, then the outworking is dependent upon how I'm feeling, and results in my feelings determining how I perceive myself in God's sight.
Just a simple response to all these responses, etc, on various recent topics/posts: I guess if ALL of us put more time in doing those "uplifting & encouraging" things versus debating "eye-for-an-eye", "look at my view pts and why "yours are wrong", oh what God could do with a church like us.
We all share one planet and live in (at least the USA) the most freedom-filled country in the planet, yet we WASTE sooo much valuable energy in "our rights and our ways". Time is not on any of OUR sides, maybe we could ALL use it in a more positive means. Maybe we so-called church folk, have too much head-knowledge and not enough truly heart-knowledge. Saying this as a fellow sinner, but just something to think about! Gotta be some other sinners out there, right?
I just wanted to share just one of my favorite verses , I personally think this is a self speaking verse also!
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away
1 Corinthians 13:4-8
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