TULIP is an acronym used by Calvinist - it is used for five points of their belief. I will try to explain them here and open us up for discussion.
1. Total hereditary depravity - we're born with Adam's sin and can do nothing to respond to the Gospel message
2. Uunconditional election - God chooses who will be saved and who will be condemned - the list is set from eternity
3. Limited atonement - Jesus did not die for everyone, only for those He knew would be saved.
4. Irresistible grace - Since God chooses who will be saved, when God sends the Holy Spirit, a person cannot resist.
5. Perseverance of the saints - Once saved, always saved.
Your thoughts on these theological positions?
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When Quoting Scripture Inflicts Harm
6 years ago
9 comments:
I have a problem with U,L,and I especially!
what are your concerns or problems with U,L and I?
I'm a Wesleyan through and through lol.
I don't understand "T". When it says we can't respond is that because God already chooses who will be saved and condemned? If so... I only believe in P.
I just can't believe the thought that God made people to condemn them. I think that destroys the hope of the gospel.
I have a lot of friends who have Calvinist beliefs but I truly believe that Jesus died for ALL and we all are elected. Once elected, the President still has to take an oath. I don't know if that's a good analogy but the good news for the gospel is for all nations so that they would be disciples not just a select few.
So according to Calvinists and your point 3, "For God so loved only those who he knew would respond to his love, that He sent His only begotten Son, that as long as those on the list He set in eternity believes in Him, then only those people shall not perish, but shall have everlasting life".
Hardly good news for those who aren't on the list.
According to Calvinists and your point 4, "'Behold, I stand at the door of those whose names are on the preordained list set in eternity and knock; if anyone hears My voice, they are powerless to resist, and must open the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me."
So now the Holy Spirit isn't a dove, but a bully.
According to Calvinists, Demas, who Paul wrote about as a fellow worker that later left, "forsaken him (Paul), having loved this present world" is saved under perseverance of the saints. Therefore, our salvation is based solely on what we decided in the past.
Surely therefore, there is little point to do what Paul encourages when he wrote "But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus" Philippians 3:7,13-14.
To suggest that a loving God has a preordained list of those who are eligible for salvation and those who are not is at best elitist, and at worst cruel. It flies in the face of a Gospel message that was to be spread to the whole world.
Fascinating - we were just discussing this at my small group. Although I don't agree with Calvin's "TULIP", he didn't just make it up. There are Scriptural supports for his position, which then through logic lead to the positions outlined in TULIP. Also, there are some "watered down" Calvinists who are not so hard core. The core question is God all-controlling.
That aside. "T" I agree with. It's through God's prevenient grace that we get the strength to accept Christ. "ULIP" I don't agree with.
"P" is held by most evangelicals, I think. Once saved, always saved. I see Scriptural support for both positions. My experience is that you can lose your salvation. I think Catholics, Lutherans and John Wesley would agree with this.
True Calvinists do believe such things. Sit down and talk to one sometimes. I had one in my living room for over an hour and my husband had to throw him out, literally. He would not accept that we did not believe as he did.
I have a brother that worships at a Baptist church, where they are based in Calvinist theology, and he does not completely belive the TULIP - but he chose to worship there because of their youth group and now he is an elder and would not leave.
Unfortunately we often "learn" our theology based on osmosis.
Let's not be too harsh - simply because we might not agree with all five points - as Henry said - they do have Scriptures that they have understood in light of their beliefs. They are orthodox Christianity as well as those who differ with their thinking.
Denominations that tend to believe this way - if not all five points - some or many - are Baptist, Presbyterians, and some non-denominational churches.
"they do have Scriptures that they have understood in light of their beliefs."
Surely therein lies the heart of the problem. Having an understanding of Scriptures in light of their beliefs is not the same thing as having a belief in light of Scripture.
To formulate an understanding of Scripture in light of belief is to "put the cart before the horse", so to speak, and is expecting God to align with our personal bias.
Great point!
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