What changes do you believe we will see with a new President?
I believe we will hear some pronouncements today as President Obama begins his term.
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When Quoting Scripture Inflicts Harm
6 years ago
Wednesday, January 21, 2009
Changes
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26 comments:
A rollback of pro life initiatives and the mountains of hard work done on behalf of the un-born over the last 20-25 years.
A total and complete inclusion of all things homosexual and lesbian into our societal fabric.
A repeal of the defense of marriage act.
Further eroding of American liberty and freedoms to congregate and evangelize the countries landscape. (i.e. hate crimes laws)
Oh yea, something that won’t change, a continuation by “christians” who turn a deaf ear unto those who brought warnings prior to this election.
As one of the "christians" that Bob R. has singled out, I have to respond:
Though I do not agree with abortion, I equally do not agree with a personal decision being mandated by a government. For as much as the US loves democracy, democracy can only exist when people have the rights to set their own destiny, with the consequences that accompany the choices they make.
To say that pro life initiatives will be rolled back is uninformed scaremongering. Regardless of political party, the number of abortions have declined in the US since the 1980's, (yes, the eighties did include the Clinton years), and during the Bush administration, the US witnessed 1.21 million abortions a year. I agree, this is 1.21 million too many, but to demonize this new President because of personal prejudices is misaligned.
Concerning the inclusion of all things homosexual and lesbian into our society, that has been going on anyway, again regardless of party persuasion. Although I neither understand not endorse a homosexual lifestyle, for me to discriminate against those who do is no better than discrimination based on skin color or ethnicity, or religion. So what's next? Do we start to villianize homosexuals, requiring them to use different water fountains, different restaurant doors, and dare I say it, sit at the back of the bus?
Our American liberties and Freedoms have already been eroded through the use of wiretaps without warrants, and the general underlying message that anyone in a turban should be regarded with more suspicion, that anyone who disagrees with a governments decision to go to war is unamerican, and that supporting the troops means blanket acceptance of what they have been tasked to do. People lost their freedom to speak up against things over the last administration, for fear of being branded a socialist, unamerican, whatever. If anyone had any doubts that the ghost of McCarthyism had passed on, they should review the last 5 years of history.
I'm actually very hopeful for the next administration. I see a President who sees the country as a mosaic of elements that are strongest when woven together, not separated out. I see a President who is not afraid of challenges, not afraid of making mistakes, not afraid of admitting to them, and not afraid of learning from them. I see a President who is willing to listen to the wisdom of others, and who has displayed an inclusiveness. I see a President who recognizes ethnic differences, and yet asks us to look beyond them to see the commonness of our humanity.
Our country and our newly elected President need our prayers, not our judgement. There is no room in the Kingdom of God for "I told you so".
Here! Here! Bob - you hit the nail on the head. Yes and some Christians turned a deaf ear and did vote for him knowing exactly what he would do. Would Jesus have voted for him?
Bob, I hope you are wrong but I think you may well be right on! Our president has Planned Parenthood in his back pocket. I fear what is to come to this country if we dishonor God by going down the paths you have listed! We're all about to find out what "changes" Pres. Obama referred to. He wouldn't be specific before the election, I wonder what he had in mind. I will pray for him every day that he would not lead us down the wrong paths.
Change certainly wasn't part of his decisions on who would be in his cabinet. It was politics as usual in rewarding people like Hillary and Biden for their support. Is he really any different than any other politician? Is it possible to be a politician and not be a politician? It seems they can all be bought! Where's the integrity?
Joan Adomanis
Go to Whitehouse.gov (not Whitehouse.com--it's a porn site) and you'll be able to see what "change" means for us! I'm afraid we're in for a wild ride folks!
Joan
Ray, I hate your anonymous feature! I will not respond to any anonymous comments! Joan
I know that some topics are volatile and that opinions will vary. As you share your opinion, simply try to state your position without characterizing those who may differ with you idea.
Also, be patient, contrary to popular belief, I do not live with my computer strapped to my side. It may by a few hours at times before a post if approved and added. I received two angry messages about their post not being accepted and others were. Give it some time and I'm excited about the interest in the blog.
Obama has been in office for a day and has already postponed any war crime charges against those who helped 9/11 come to pass. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28755135/)
He has also lifted the ban that stops the government funded facilities to allow abortions.
(http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/01/21/obama-lift-ban-funding-groups-providing-abortions-overseas/)
I am sorry, but we were already doomed as a nation that is turning away from God, but I am afraid with some of his decisions we are soon going to fall like every other nation that turned from God in the OT.
Two of the most far reaching changes will be:
1. The appointment of federal judges that have a loose interpretation of the US Constitution. For example, Supreme Court judges of the new president's liking would not have overruled the DC gun ban last year.......i.e., they would not support your right to bear arms.
2. An increase in the size of government, which will lead to an increase in our society's dependence on government. In the long run, this will weaken our country.
We will be like the young adult that doesn't move out of the house and continues to live off mom and dad for way, way too long. As compared to the young adult that lovingly moves out on his own, trips, falls, but gets back up to try again until he eventually gets it right.
I'd rather have us be the young adult that fails but gets stronger with experience.
Mark Woods
I guess judging by the caliber of comments made thus far, the changes I can most likely and unfortunately expect to see is increased judgment of others, a greater desire to dictate what others should choose to do to their bodies or to other people according to our political leanings, increased hand-wringing and nay-saying, and overall growing criticism of all things not right wing conservative.
There hardly seems to be any point to remind folks that Jesus told us to remove the beams from our own eyes before we remove specks from anyone else's eye. Maybe that message would get a wider audience if Sean Hannity or Bill O'Reilly preach it instead.
As I read the comments, we seem to be more intent on dictating how others live around us, rather than concentrating how to we can demonstrate the love and compassion of Christ to ALL men.
That notion alas seems to be a little too tolerant, a little too all inclusive, a little too ecumenical for some, and on a personal level, makes my decision to stay away from church all the easier to make.
I would remind folks that we should be less critical, more positive and to give the new administration a chance.
Although I do not agree with some of the political or religious leanings expressed so far by our new President, he is my President and I will pray for his time in office. I will not disregard everything because it doesn't fit my thinking. I will be tolerant, because 1) I do not have all the answers, 2) I am not perfect, 3) my understanding of Scripture is not perfect, and 4) we do not live in a Christian society so we should not expect Christian values to be legislated. We might just have to stand up for our faith against all odds. Go figure, the early church didn't live in a Christian society. Yet Romans 13 tells us we are to obey the governing authorities over us.
I will pray for President Obama. I will also pray for those on this blog - not all from Mt. Oak or even the church. We have been a bit critical, don't you think?
Anon11:52 I want to thank you for your comment on this post and that under the Inauguration Prayer post which I think is yours as well.
Joshua said choose this day whom you will serve. All the options were laid out in front of all of Israel and Joshua and his house chose the Way of the Lord.
Let America have it's options, and let us pray that the God of Elijah will show himself true like He did on Mt. Carmel. (1 Kings 18:16-39).
I am learning in my life to stop acting as if God is not in control and to love as Christ would love. Was it easier because we had patriotic conservative "Religious right" politicians in the majority? (That's rhetorical lol). Let us let go and let God.
Everyone in this world is looking for love, compassion, grace, and affirmation and only the Lord God can give those things. Our prodigal countrymen can only run so far before the love and Truth of the Lord will open their eyes to see the pigsty they have put themselves in.
Let us not be the judgmental brother but be humble and let the Father have His way with them. Let's stop acting like this is in our hands.
I for one am excited to see the PROCESS of government change during this four years. I will either agree or disagree with the decisions and laws (much like the last 8 years) but I am ready for a more collaborative government of the people, for the people, and by the people.
If we're really scared about scary "leftist" initiatives... Parents raise your children in the Way of the Lord. Present His Truth... let the Holy Spirit do the rest.
Christ changed Rick Warren's life. He can also change the lives of "those dern socialist taxidermists" LOL.
I think it appropriate today to ask for prayer for all the women that may be contemplating or are going through with an abortion today or in the future. Today being the anniversary of the horrific decision by our Supreme Court on Roe Vs Wade.
I will pray for our President as he thinks about this day. That his heart will be softened and he will seek God's face in all of his decisions.
I wonder why there are so many comments on the posts about politics and very few comments on the posts about seeking after a pure heart and love being patient? Is it because we are too quick to judge and criticize others and less enthused about honestly evaluating ourselves? I think, in my humble opinion, that it would be more productive to pray for our country and its leaders from a pure heart than to criticize and condemn in (self) righteous indignation. If I remember correctly, Jesus said the greatest command was to love your neighbors as you love yourself...
Here are some changes that are forthcoming.
http://www.illinoisfamily.org/news/contentview.asp?c=34226
I believe that Bob has a right to his opinion but that his reaction to the new President and administration is scary--full of hate--not full of the Christian love and acceptance that we as Christians should have learned by our following of Jesus and the Bible. I agree with anonymous 11:52 am. I pray for President Obama and his cabinet and feel that he will be open to others and will listen to different sides of the discussions. I think that Bob R. needs to open his mind and his heart and value our American society and the wonder that we have in the freedom to be able to make our own decisions.
We have a freedom like no other country in the world-and we all need to be able to listen and observe what is going on around us and stop having blinders on. It is a new and glorious day in the United States--one of promise--one where we are ALLOWED to pick our religion and our President and our jobs and so much more. I am proud that we as Americans are ALLOWED to make our own decisions and we do not have to hide from the authorities when worshiping whom we want and voting for whom we want. We as disciples of Christ are ALLOWED to go out and tell others about Jesus and the Bible. Thank God for our freedoms!
Lorie Lowery
Joan Adomanis
DAG! Bob is not being hateful! He's stating the truth! Pres. Obama just lifted the ban on my tax dollars paying for Planned Parenthood to perform abortions abroad! Just because Christians disagree doesn't mean they're being hateful! Sometimes the blunt truth is hard to hear.
Answer me this: did you Christians who voted for Pres. Obama know that he was going to fund abortions--the killing of those made in the image of God? If you did not then you didn't research very well and if you did, then did you not turn a deaf ear to the warnings which Bob referred to"?
Come on, Joan, if you are going to bring up Planned Parenthood, at least represent them accurately.
From the Planned Parenthood website:
Expanding access to family planning is not only good, basic health care; it saves women’s lives. In some parts of Africa, women have a one-in-10 risk of dying in childbirth, a sad fact only exacerbated by the gag rule. Women’s health and well-being are the bedrock of freedom and independence for individuals, families, and entire communities. Avoiding disease, having access to clean water and nutritious food, deciding whether and when to have children, and being safe in pregnancy and childbirth make women stronger and improve the quality of life for families and communities.
Ironically, it seems that the same groups who are staunchly opposed to programs such as Planned Parenthood are the same ones who would withhold funding for programs to provide aid to inner city mothers, teen pregnancy support, and so on, because these too do not fall into the Mayberry-like nirvana that we should all be living in.
I supported Obama, and I voted for him and it was certainly not on the strength of a single issue. Single issue voting is the height of being uninformed. I voted for Obama because the alternative (and don't get me wrong, there was a time that I was very much a McCain supporter) was increased paranoia, less restrictive gun control (which will have a bigger impact on me with public school children than abortion will), and the promise of increased defense spending as a weary Army continued to turn over rocks for something that wasn't where they were looking. The US did not need another sabre rattler, it needed a statesman. Will Obama turn out to be that statesman? I don't know, but I will say that he showed a lot more promise to do so than did Senator McCain.
Once again, the discussion turns to us taking a moral high ground and telling people how they should accept their lot in life because the alternatives offend our sense of morality. I have no right to even presume to impose my will over another persons decision making process. I can condemn the decision all I like, but if a woman chooses to end the life of her unborn child, then she is the one who bears the consequences and she is the one who gives account before God. My account before God will be of how I chose to reach out to her through her decision, or how I chose to shun her because of her decision.
Planned Parenthood isn't just abortion funding or disguise for it. Abortion may be apart of it but Planned Parenthood worldwide offers sexual awareness programs, HIV/AIDS support, and contraceptive information. In poorer countries, HIV/AIDS abound and backdoor abortions take place.
We need to honestly take a scalpel to it like Obama said in earlier debates and perhaps separate one from the other.
However, the bigger issue is that we as Christians sit and complain and put are support behind the more "moral" party that had 8 years to truly put the cap on all these "moral" issues but instead benefited from money laundering.*
I think the bigger solution is to stop complaining from our pews and start participating in politics. We have to play the game to make any mark in it. Our prayer should not only be for our present president and lawmakers but for this next generation "rising up to take their [places]" as our future day Nehemiahs, Deborahs, Esthers, and Davids.
*HUGE generalization. A FEW benefited not the entire party. ;D
Well lets see what he has done so far...
1- issued an executive order on Thursday reversing the Bush administration policy that bans the use of federal dollars by non-govermental organizations that discuss or provide abortions outside of the United States.
2- lets close Gitmo! He has managed to do that with NO PLAN in line as to what to do with the terrorists that are there now, and no other country is wanting them there (that alone should say something abiut the terrorists who are there. Plus the ones that have been let go, have returned to the battlefield to fight against us again!)
3- make waterboarding illegal! The rule Obama signed would prevent trained interrogators at the CIA from using lawful interrogation techniques against terrorists who have been trained to withstand Army Field Manual techniques.
well so far I am not impressed. Also not surprised!
Mike
Mikefred,
Concerning point 1, did you really expect otherwise? This issue has been topic number one at every administration change since Reagan. If you expected it to remain in place, you're being a little naive.
Concerning closing Gitmo, if by no other country wanting them you are not counting Switzerland, Germany, the United Kingdom, Portugal or Ireland who have all spoken up since last Thursdays announcement and volunteered to assist in the imprisonment of detainees, then you would be correct. So far, there has been a lot of international support for treating these detainees as international prisoners, so it is only right that other countries be allowed to assist in the processing of them.
Then we get to point 3, waterboarding. You are correct in saying that it was legal, but the circumstances surrounding it becoming legal (Gonzalez approved the measure unannounced and with none of the usual press releases) would make anyone wonder why the secrecy in the first place? Waterboarding isn't a new technique, it goes back to the Spanish Inquisition, and is widely regarded as a method of torture by legal experts, military analysts, the medical profession, historians, etc, etc. Hopefully, the Body of Christ can see it for waht it really is too.
Joan Ado:
Interesting how I'm called Joan by someone who won't reveal their identity! Sorry I don't respond to anonymous folk.
But I will respond to Josef--whom I love dearly! My love--I am not one to sit and complain from my pew. I have actively been involved with helping single mothers. I have done everything I can to help people who choose life for their babies. I think a favorite argument to pro-lifers is that we are in word only. That kinda sorta puts us all in a big box. Besides ourselves, Chris and I have 5 very close friends that have adopted these babies. We were all able to have biological children but we all wanted to put action behind our beliefs.
I am not nor will I ever be a politician. I am however, a praying believer who tries to do what the Lord tells her to do. I don't judge those who have abortions. I actually feel deep pain for them.
I will never give the ok to Planned Parenthood--no matter how they dress up what they are doing. I am not telling people they can't have abortions--I'm saying that this nation will pay deeply because our government insists on paying for abortions. There must be a punishment for blood (Genesis).
I DO NOT WANT MY MONEY PAYING FOR ABORTIONS! Is there something wrong with that?
Of course you know Mrs. A. I was speaking in general to all of us as the universal church, myself included about sitting in the pews! God bless you for the works you do! If we would all follow the God-Given burdens the Spirit wants to put in our lives we'd all be more effective for Him. I could never argue about where your heart lies in this matter :-)
My only point is that we're all going to either like or dislike the changes that will come in the next four years. We must do all that we are called to do as civilians of this nation but once the ink hits the paper, we should pray. Pray that above all else, God's will be done. Believe that He who has began a good work in us as a nation will bring it to completion. Take faith that He hears the unborn child's cry, that as we raise kids the Spirit will teach them right from wrong even when our societal fabric tries to clothe their minds in lies and gray areas.
Joan Ado:
Josef, Points well taken! Amen!
Did anyone hear what Nancy Pelosi said about contraception being a key to our economy recovering?
Interesting....
I posted a simple question about planned parenthood and it does not get "approved"
Posts that were hours after mine DO get approved?
im done with this
Anonymous 7:38 - I haven't rejected any comments for some time - maybe I didn't get yours. I did have my home computer crash recently, twice. Obviously you can come and go as you please. You are responding anonymously, so I can't reach out to you any other way but this! Sorry, but before you assume something, you could ask...
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