I posted this to the questions raised in the Homosexuality post.
What about it folks - do we condone some sins - the ones we commit or are comfortable with while condemning the ones we do not do or feel uncomfortable about?
Is divorce a sin? If it is, how can one repent?
Is remarriage a sin? If so, how can we repent? Must we divorce again to rid ourselves of one sin while committing another?
What does the Scripture say? I will add a new post for this discussion and keep them one for the homosexual issue at hand.
So what are your thoughts?
Malachi 2:16 - "I hate divorce," says the Lord God of Israel,
Matthew 5:27-32 - 27 "You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell. 31 "It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.' 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.
Matthew 19:3-9 -3 Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?" 4 "Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' 5 and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh' ? 6 So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate." 7 "Why then," they asked, "did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?" 8 Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."
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When Quoting Scripture Inflicts Harm
6 years ago
14 comments:
Pastor Ray, I personally feel that divorce is not a sin. I truly feel like marrying someone that you are not equally yolked is!!!! With God at the center of a marriage I doubt it would be as likely to fail. I feel like we live in a society where we dont work hard at/or for much. We are selfish and expect that things get handed to us or to easy. We want what we want and we want it now! We arent always willing to work out problems and situations that arise in a marriage. Marriage is work!!! Ask anyone that has been married for over 6 months. Any relationship is work and requires us to put someone elses wants and needs before ours. But the rewards far out weigh the work. How do I know this? I was fortunate enough to have a spouse for 23 years until he passed away. I live with the hope that one day soon I will be a spouse again and I am sure we will be married until death do us part, how do I know this? Because even in our dating relationship we put God first and that I believe is the key to making this new relationship successful. Pam
In general, I believe that most divorce is sinful. Most marriages could be saved if both people will work on it. God "allowed" divorce (by making rules to deal with it) because of the peoples' hard hearts. It is one of many sins that has permanent consequences even after repentance. Most divorced couples would not remarry -- if the partners repent, it is more likely to be too late.
Remarriage is more challenging. One explanation I have heard is that the initial coming together may be adultery, but that once the couple is married the union becomes blessed of God. The biblical reference was the story of David and Bathsheba, who began their relationship in adultery but who seemed to be blessed later.
I would be interested to hear any other biblical support for or against my thoughts!
So it was I who made the post about God owing Sodom and Gomorra an apology if homosexuality is not a sin.
On the issue of divorce and remarriage…I am also guilty of this sin (if you want to call it that).
Several years ago, without saying a word to me, my husband of almost two years, packed his belongings and left while I was at a Bible study. At the time, I was a stay-at-home mother, not working, with a seven month old son. He left, emptied all the bank accounts, took all the credit cards and left us with nothing. I had to beg for money to by formula for our son.
I did not have the support of my family because I married him against their wishes. I married him because I believed with every fiber of my being that God had ordained the marriage.
Two weeks after he left, he filed for divorce, again without even talking to me. I still had no idea why he wanted a divorce. When he finally spoke to me, he said it was because I was a terrible wife and mother. He said it was too much stress on him to financially support us. Although we previously agreed that it would be best for our son if I was his caregiver, I offered to go back to work. That was still not sufficient for him but he would not tell me what else I could do to make it work.
Since we lived in Maryland, we had to wait a year before the divorce could be absolute. Throughout that year, I prayed and fasted and fasted and prayed and did everything I could to try to make the marriage work. I did this because I believe the word of God! I believe that God could fix anything, even though everyone thought I had lost my mind for wanting to make it work.
Two week before the final hearing, he said he missed his family and wanted to come back home. Finally, God had answered my prayers!! The day he was to move back home, he showed up empty-handed. He told me that the only real problem he had with me was that I was not working and it was too stressful for him. He said the reason he wanted out of the marriage was because being with me was not the same as being with a man. He wanted to live a gay lifestyle and being married to me was getting in the way. For an entire year, I believed that it was my fault that he left. That day I understood what it meant for the truth to set you free.
Needless to say, I could not understand why God would allow the marriage to fall apart if He had ordained it. How could something ordained by God not work? When I asked God if I had made a mistake in marrying him, His answer was no. Then how could it fall apart if you ordained it, I asked. His response – I can do anything, except make someone do what I asked them to do. You had a choice, He said, and so did he. I revealed my will to both of you, you chose to follow me and he chose not to. It is against my nature to force someone to do my will.
So I moved on, as a single mom, but with God. I remained single and did not date for over five years. I am now happily remarried. And he is still living a homosexual lifestyle, with HIV. He claims that he has made peace with “his god” and that is the way God made him.
So tell me, am I an adulterer? Or is my new husband, as great as he is, an adulterer?
My perspective on divorce is different from some I am sure. I have never been married or divorced in the traditional sense of the words so I cannot speak from experience.
But, I do not believe divorce in and of itself is a sin. Divorcing because you "don't want to be married anymore" may be.
But I don't believe divorce under circumstances like those below is a sin - 1) when someone is being emotionally, physically, or sexually abused 2) when one or both parties is in an affair and refuses to refrain even after counseling 3) when the conflict in the house is making things so tense it has a negative effect on children 4) when an addiction has destroyed or is destroying the family.
I do believe that before any divorce occurs all parties involved need to spend time in prayer and trying to solve the problems that led them to the brink.
I agree that many (but not most) marriages can be saved if both people work on it. I also agree that we all have a choice and if you are married to someone who's choices are harmful to the family then divorce may be the only solution. That is when (in my mind) it is not a sin.
I also don't believe remarriage is a sin if the relationship has at its core a shared faith and God leads the couple into the marriage.
Jan
I have another question related to this post....
If divorce and remarriage under any circumstances are sins according to your interpretation of scripture, then do you believe those who are divorced and remarried should be able to be members of our churches or serve in leadership positions?
I don't know many people in second marriages who believe God condemns those unions.
I want to make it clear that I haven't given my opinion on this issue. If the previous poster was meaning me by this quote:
If divorce and remarriage under any circumstances are sins according to your interpretation of scripture, then do you believe those who are divorced and remarried should be able to be members of our churches or serve in leadership positions?
I merely raised this issue for discussion because I was asked to in light of the discussion we had about homosexuality, Scripture and leadership/membership in the church.
I will give my beliefs on the subject in a later remark.
I remember attending Bill Gothard's Basic Youth Conflicts seminars in the early 70s, (my early twenties.) His teachings stated that you should not divorce. He gave an example of a man who was divorced and started dating a woman and they fell in love. They were Christians and based on his teachings that woman did everything in her power to bring her boyfriend and his ex-wife back together again. So what was he saying there? If I remember correctly he was saying that divorce and remarriage are a sin. Not in God's plan. God abhors divorce.
Rev Ray, I have heard you on one or two occassions stating that a remarriage is not as blessed as a first marriage. Can you elaborate? (Linda)
Alright, this goes against my better judgment, but I have to chime in on this....
The verse in Malachi, like so many other verses in the Bible, can be misinterpreted when taken out of context.
Malachi 2:16 says "I hate divorce", says the Lord God of Israel.
The word used there, "divorce", was translated as such by the King James scholars, but is a mistranslation. The Hebrew word used, "shalach" means "separation, being apart", not "divorce", but time and the vagaries of the English language have generated confusion.
In the wider context, the passage in Malachi is talking about "Judah" marrying the daughter of a strange god, having broken faith with the wife of his youth.
God does in fact have provision for divorce, the law concerning it is very clear, in Deuteronomy 24:1-4.
The man is to draw up a divorce document, and give it to his wife.
She is put out of the house, but is then free to remarry.
The process is pretty clear: draw up the paperwork, and THEN make the separation. The problem in Malachi was the covenant was still in place (the woman was still the wife of Judah's marriage covenant when he decided to marry the daughter of the strange god). The separation took place without the certificate of divorce to break the covenant, and THAT is what the Lord hates.
Interestingly, Jesus also addressed the topic of divorce, in Mark 19:3-12. He clearly indicates 2 things:
1. there are circumstances that divorce is permitted,
2. According to Jesus, it is the MAN who is guilty of adultery. Since men in the culture were the ones with the ability to issue the certificate of divorce, it could be that Jesus said this because a man, having taken the decision to walk away from his wife, chose to break the covenant to walk into the arms of another woman.
I think the church does the world a huge disservice by making blanket judgments like "subsequent marriages aren't as blessed as first ones". No-one can know enough about a person's past or their circumstances to make that sort of sweeping judgment. It's the role of the church to preach good news, to follow Jesus example, not point accusatory fingers.
Someone mentioned a statement I made years ago. When I made the statement that second marriages were not able to be as blessed as first marriages it was in a context of counseling young persons. I was trying to get them to make wise decisions on their first marriage. Many times people go on emotion and attraction rather than prayerful consideration and thought. I know it is a blanket statement and I know there are exceptions to everything. Some folks are more blessed in a second marriage for a variety of reasons that we could talk about in another post.
The statement was made in context to understanding the issues (baggage) that comes with a typical second marriage. Studies will show that most second marriages are impacted by the first marriage in a variety of ways, most times negatively. Even if it was a great first marriage than ended through some mutual agreement, there are issues.
For instance, I have long tried to instruct teens to wait until marriage to have sexual relations. If your marriage partner is your first partner, the relationship you share is the best either of you have ever experienced. There is no comparisons. Second marriages lose that blessing and comparisons can work negatively on a marriage.
Studies show that most people who experience divorce and remarriage with children involved carry an extra load of responsibility and at times difficulty. Parenting a step child is usually not a peace of cake. Some children, even with both biological parents together are difficult, I understand this, but studies show that even after a parent marries again, most children long for them to get back together with the other parent.
Finances are usually an issue in causing divorces and in second marriages. There are at times two households to manage and his, mine and our children and responsibilities. Finance according to most studies is the number one issue in causing divorce.
Dealing with more "parents and grandparents" in the lives of the children from a divorced home has also been difficult for some families. Quality time is often an issue with both parents in the same home and it can become an even tougher deal with blended families.
Trust is also an issue in many second marriages. Especially if your former partner cheated on you or abused you in any way.
I could go on but this is the context in which I have said that second marriages cannot generally be as blessed as first marriages. Add to these issues the Biblical teaching about marriage, divorce and remarriage and the guilt associated with what many call a "failed" marriage and you can see how many strikes a second marriage has before it begins. Add to this that the percentage of divorce for second marriages rises from 50% to 75-80%.
My statement is from study and observation over 30 plus years of ministry. It is not a hard and fast truth but a truth for a majority if not most second marriages. I have also seen second marriages that have been a great blessing.
I would welcome your thoughts and comments.
Maybe I'm not going about this correctly.
It is hard to dialogue with someone who is critical but unwilling to identify themselves for whatever reason. Without an identity, I cannot dialogue with a person about a negative post and possibly getting them rephrase what they are trying to say so it can be posted.
I'm the creator of the blog and when I post you know it is coming from me. I am not shielding my identity with an anonymous log in.
When I allow anonymous posters it might help some say some things they would not say if they were identified. But is also allows some to take shots at the pastor or others without accountability. I will not allow this.
Someone has challenged my thoughts about second marriages and the issues that can hinder them from being as blessed as first marriages. Instead of saying I disagree with your opinion this person insists on saying my thoughts are wrong. They support why they think this, but I didn't think we were here to decide who is right or wrong but to discuss different ideas.
I will continue to reject posts that I think are negative in tone. I am not afraid of folks who disagree, but rather the tone that is used.
Your thoughts are welcomed.
I don't believe Pastor Ray thinks second marriages cannot be blessed. He simply recognizes that there are certain things you can only do once. And as blessed as they may be in a second marriage, they cannot recapture the firsts.
Whoever is being negative, please stop. I enjoy this form of discussion and have been able to talk about things here I have not been able to talk about elsewhere.
Thank you Rev Ray for your elaboration. I can very well see your point. I have talked to many that are in second marriages and I often see the struggles, emotionally and economically, that they go through. But if they love one another and have God first in the second marriage they will get through it. It just may be alittle more difficult than those within a first marraige. Thanks again for your words. (Linda)
Pastor Ray, your thoughts are important to me and I appreciate you putting these topics up for discussion.
On another subject, in other blogs that I participate in I must give an e-mail or some form of identification.
Thanks for worship this morning. It was awesome and I want to know God's will for my life!
I was very intrigued by the anonymous writer who wrote about their husband leaving them, fasting&praying for them to come back, and then consequently developing a set of problems from being a single parent. I have faced some of the same issues.
I have wondered sometimes if these issues would put me at a disadvantage toward getting in a second marriage. Although I do agree with Pastor Ray that the issues exist, I believe that with God, all things are possible. The enemy would want nothing more than to use these issues against biblically acceptable divorcees to keep us from the blessing of marriage. It was obviously him ( our enemy, the devil) that got us out of the first one, for God hates divorce.
Given that the first marriage was ended due to my husbands' unbelief, and consequent adultery, I believe that I am free, and free to remarry. Although I have remained unmarried for almost 8 years, I think that being married again would be a great blessing to both me and my daughter and definitely to the glory of God.
Thanks for sharing all of these stories, comments, and pastoral advice. I really appreciate it. Please let me know what you think :)
Katie Hall
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